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Author Topic: Output preview questions  (Read 747 times)
MC87
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« on: March 13, 2010, 04:32:44 AM »

I was upconverting a 640x480 file using only the SR resize (good quality) and no other filters.
While it was being converted I was watching the output preview in the encoding window and I couldn't see much improvement other than what you would get through the Lanczos resize that is done before SR takes place.

Now is this because the output preview only shows the effects of other filters like noise reduction etc. and not super resolution filter?
It would seem so as the frame shown in the output preview always matches the frame shown in the input preview, since SR uses a sequence of multiple frames to work the final output frame would only be calculated some frames later.

Am I right? Otherwise, if the output preview is indeed the real thing, why is there so little improvement?

Also would it be benificial to use filters like MSU smart sharpen, 2D cleaners, Xsharpen to increase image quality even if my video isn't noisy or blocky, will this introduce artifacting?

And where should I place them in the chain, before or after the SR filter?

Another question, i'm using the Xvid codec to re-encode my videos what quality settings should I be using? ie. profile level, target quantizer etc
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 04:38:14 AM by MC87 » Logged
Dee Mon
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2010, 06:57:46 AM »

No, in preview you see the result of all processing, including SR, but not including compression (which sometimes may degrade video quality). If you don't see improvements in preview, then probably SR can't really help your video.
http://www.infognition.com/articles/when_super_resolution_doesnt_work.html

Other questions I believe were answered here:
http://www.infognition.com/VideoEnhancer/manual.html
http://www.infognition.com/VideoEnhancer/faq.html
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MC87
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2010, 01:52:36 PM »

No, in preview you see the result of all processing, including SR, but not including compression (which sometimes may degrade video quality). If you don't see improvements in preview, then probably SR can't really help your video.
http://www.infognition.com/articles/when_super_resolution_doesnt_work.html

Other questions I believe were answered here:
http://www.infognition.com/VideoEnhancer/manual.html
http://www.infognition.com/VideoEnhancer/faq.html

Oh, ok thanks for the links.

But my file is good quality 640x480 resolution video with no noise and no major blocking or other compression artifacts.
There is also definite movement between frames and the motion is mainly smooth, not jerky or overly fast.

Will Video Enhancer not be able to enhance the quality of the video?

Also how many consecutive frames does SR (quality mode) utilise to create the final the output frame?
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Dee Mon
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 09:31:13 AM »

Please don't expect wonders. If your video is as you describe then VE should provide better results than Lanczos, however when you upsize just 2 times the difference may be not stunning. It's becoming much more obvious when one upsizes 4 times or more.

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how many consecutive frames does SR (quality mode) utilise to create the final the output frame?

In some sense, all of them. It processes frames one by one, accumulating information. On each frame it mixes spatially interpolated current frame N and result of work with the previous frame (high-res frame N-1) which in turn uses information from frame N-2 which uses info from frame N-3 and so on.
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MC87
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 09:02:57 AM »

Please don't expect wonders. If your video is as you describe then VE should provide better results than Lanczos, however when you upsize just 2 times the difference may be not stunning. It's becoming much more obvious when one upsizes 4 times or more.

Quote
how many consecutive frames does SR (quality mode) utilise to create the final the output frame?

In some sense, all of them. It processes frames one by one, accumulating information. On each frame it mixes spatially interpolated current frame N and result of work with the previous frame (high-res frame N-1) which in turn uses information from frame N-2 which uses info from frame N-3 and so on.

Oh ok, I'll try a 4x SR upsize to see the difference.

Also could my video compression options have anything to do with the result?
I am using Xvid single pass with the target quantizer set to 3 (Which is apparently the sweet spot for the filesize/quality tradeoff)


If you are saying that only the previous frame is used (which itself uses the frame before and so on).
Should'nt the quality of later frames be significantly better than earlier frames from the same scene? This gradual increase in quality would be a bit distracting so I assume your SR algorithim must include information from later frames as well as preceding frames
to create the final output frame.

I mean: say you take the frame no. 1000 of the final output video, which adjacent frames from the source video have been used to create this frame? eg. frames 990-1010 etc.
Is the number constant or is it dynamic and varies depending on scene/frame content etc. What are the differences between the Quality and speed SR modes?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 09:07:53 AM by MC87 » Logged
Dee Mon
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 09:34:22 AM »

Yes, lossy compression removes high frequency details. Optimal bitrate or quantizer depends on your needs and your video. As an experiment you can try using a lossless video codec such as Lagarith to see full quality, but be warned that lossless video takes a lot of space.

Yes, usually quality of later frames is higher than that of the first frames.
Currently when upsizing a frame later frames are not used. Using them would increase quality but it would be very slow. Probably this approach will be added in later versions as an "ultimate quality" mode for the very patient users.
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rezerector
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 12:44:55 PM »

I recently tried resizing with Lagarith converting an average mpeg2 dvd file 4,5 GB..and ended up with a file size of 97 GB..then I compressed it in adobe cs4 with the excellent
264 codec ending up with a file of 2,3 GB and still looking amazing..it is as if and can really pay off yo use Lagarith during resizing..it looks great in my 42 inch widescreen
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